Apartments & Regioning - Some Suggestions

[virek]

Hello McCities Staff. Let me start by saying I appreciate this server a ton, you've been putting obvious effort into improvements. I hope to play it for years to come, and after I post this I'm going to make my first donation to this server which is probably long overdue.

One thing I believe still believe needs improvement is the apartments situation--which I'm more than happy to help with as much as I'm allowed. As you know, there are some specific problems such as:

1. Too many unnrented apartments
2. A large amount of low-quality apartments that probably should have never been zoned or zones should be removed
3. Apartments are now restricted to be zoned on islands only

I think #3 was an effort to help address the issue, but I believe we need to take it a step farther. I've even gone as far as buying low quality apartments and having the zones removed and replacing the builds by using my own in-game money, usually at a loss but the area was much improved.

Please consider these possible solutions:

1. Zoning
   1. This doesn't have to be as much work as this sounds. It can simply mean the already existing high density areas vs low density areas.
   2. Me Personally--The only high density area I would define is the Main City--this is where new players show up and walk around, and because of Sprawl you hardly ever see another player. This area should "hustle and bustle" with shops on the lower grounds and apartment towers to promote population.
      1. I honestly think it will help retention of new players to open up into a "living" city like this. You have the numbers they are just so spread out.
2. Removal of low quality apartments
   1. There are a lot of very small apartments with no views, windows, etc. I think we should straight up remove these regions and set a new standard of living for new players.
3. Set a high standard for regioning new apartments
   1. Make the requirements to have an apartments regioned very strict. They should be much larger than before, have views/windows, etc. There should only be maybe a dozen or so apartments in a large building max rather than what happened in the past--which is seeing how many apartments you can fit into a building at 250/week.
   2. For example a build of mine at sky5 (which is owned by @Death) would be a good *minimum* standard of size and luxury. New players should have access to high quality apartments in both size and beauty.
      1. Alternatively, the first build I ever made on this server at sky4 honestly wouldn't meet a new standard, they are too small and they probably should have just been 2 per story rather than 4.
4. Set this same standard for islands
   1. You don't want to drive density away from the main city, perhaps put a cap on apartments allowed on an island, but still allow them. But you don't want to overpopulate or move density away from the main city.

In general, I think the current solution still promotes sprawling away from the core city--I'd much rather see improvements, rezoning, allowing higher quality builds, and removal of the apartments that rarely or never go rented because of the low quality or small size.

Quality over quantity, so to speak--and only in "high density" zones. I think that's a decent way to handle it and I'm happy to help if you need it.

Thanks,

@nibble @LeanneTheUnicorn @sundae22

 

[ItzJazzMade]

Well apts where a real hit when I first joined I believe around october. Problem is you cant unregion something that is woned by somebody else. But I would love to help contact some aoartmentbuilding owners if they want to unregion theirs as some buildings are completely empty.

(Btw like the work put in this suggestion)

It doesnt really harm anyone or anything. Most buildings are nice and look good and new players have enough space to live.

 

[SirKosmo]

I 100% back this. Itd be rad to see the city full of players

 

[Death]

I’ve been trying to address this situation for a while now, I think only about half or like 40-50 pages of 81 pages of rentable plots are there. Let’s assume 90% are apts and mall stuff. Because there are little House plots besides the jb area.


Ill start out with a few communities
If I were to be honest the jb area is actually a very good start out rent home, a decent amount is being rented, the houses are a decent size for a small storage a few furnaces and a crafting bench. The problem is, the area there is not being managed.

If I am correct it is located in South Cayman, which is very near the airport.


In my plot hoarding, I had several buildings, which had really small apts for bad prices which were not being rented out, most of which were in Main Island or Cayman Island. So I couldn’t change unregion then make a new one then reregion. I wished to change a few of my apts to better size, quality, and price but if I wouldn’t be allowed to reregion it back to a better one, I wouldn’t want to stand the risk as you can’t region apts in cayman. My friend who is one of the best archs on the server, he has been here for a long time, suggested to unregion small low quality apts, and change them to better ones. I can show you an example of his build, it’s currently with my brother KBlade, but the plot is bwood-ap, it is located right in front of the go-row village, right beside the go-modern mansions and very near the go-modern, long house village. The closest warp to this is the shop I believe, I can show you in game if ever. It’s really big decorated rooms, which would have went for low prices.


As the players of McCities, it’s our responsibility to help keep it running, what I mean by this is, we are the supply, we need to feed the demand.

What do players want to find in an apt (besides loot)
-huge size
-decorated and nice
-has windows and nice views
-lots of breathing space and nothing cramped
-cheap prices.

So some of the apartments like Jabus is really good, it’s huge and people rent it cause of its mass size and affordable pricing.

So what I thought is, why not buy apts in McCities, we can unregion them BUT, we have an option to rebuild and re region, which we can then make better apts with the standards above.

Do any of you know the buildings near warp city, Aura apts and Sustain apts, those were really good sized room for a good price, back in the day it was hard to get an apt there, especially the aura apt, cause there were only 8 rooms. It was immensely near warp city, which I really enjoyed seeing some pvp battles in the streets etc...

Now what most of this high standard apts were basically, not as famous as it was before.

Most apartments only have 1-2 apts rented (besides Jabus really big one). But most only have a few apts rented.

We need to start deleting the apts with a lot of dead regions, and stop regioning apts for purposes to earn, by making a ton of small apts.

I will admit, I actually made a ton of small apts, but I see I did wrong and will be planning to unregion it if I can rebuild it and be allowed to re region it again.

 

[Trump15024]

I agree I have a build (a200) and it has huge apartments with good views the apartments are huge but unfortunately I can't region them. I think we need to 1. Start by un-regioning apartments that are not being used or are too small etc 2. Allow back regioning in the city but apartments must meet a new standard because apartments just don't have to be for new players I think the apartments in A200 for example would be nice for any player tourist to millionaire.

 

[Trump15024]

Also if regioning is allowed back in the city that might actually help solve the plot issue players would be able to buy nice apartments instead of hoarding plots such as a higher limit on the amount of apartments you could have

 

[LeanneTheUnicorn]

Okay firstly

If I were to be honest the jb area is actually a very good start out rent home, a decent amount is being rented, the houses are a decent size for a small storage a few furnaces and a crafting bench. The problem is, the area there is not being managed.

Idk if you have checked their recently but there should be 0 grieved houses or whatever as I do regularly check then

Secondly, how is it possible to unregion someone’s apartment building? If some apartments are I rented then it isn’t possible anyways. Also, it’s unfair for some people’s to be unregioned, surely? How would staff be able to determine whether to unregion them or not? A certain percentage of them being unrented? Or a certain blocks squared to be the new minimum?

I think it’s a good idea in theory, but there will need to be clear rules on what is going to be unregioned.

 

[Death]

Okay firstly

Idk if you have checked their recently but there should be 0 grieved houses or whatever as I do regularly check then

Secondly, how is it possible to unregion someone’s apartment building? If some apartments are I rented then it isn’t possible anyways. Also, it’s unfair for some people’s to be unregioned, surely? How would staff be able to determine whether to unregion them or not? A certain percentage of them being unrented? Or a certain blocks squared to be the new minimum?

I think it’s a good idea in theory, but there will need to be clear rules on what is going to be unregioned.

But can we have the option if the full building has no rented regions, to fully unregion it rebuild and reregion?

I didn’t mean the houses were in bad shape, I meant the area in general, dosent have amenities or anything, it’s a good neighborhood just no facilities or shops or malls etc...

 

[virek]

@LeanneTheUnicorn, This post is long, but it's a simple solution--please read through it--the length of this post is because I created sample apartment guidelines document for the staff to use if they choose to adopt it.

There are 3 things that need to happen to implement this. This is obviously something that takes place over many months or years using attrition and not something you just pull the rug out from the player base.

The steps to success are:

1. Acknowledge that apartments are for facilitating new players & creating density in urban cores. This will increase the purpose of retail shopping, police forces, community, and PVP. Apartments are NOT for veterans to profit from new players. Apartment ownership should be reserved for players with excellent building skills who want to build fantastic apartment complexes or as trophy properties to veterans. They will be a money sink for end game players--not income generators.
2. New, strict rules regarding zoning new apartments (defined below).
3. New rezoning policy for properties that change hands after X date (defined below). Grandfathering will also be in place.


GUIDELINE DOCUMENT:

New Apartment Zoning Rules

Rules are in place to remove motivation of profit (such as trying to fit as many apartments as possible into one building), to support more luxurious spaces, to ensure tenancy is high, to maintain dense urban populations, and to reduce urban sprawl.

General Appearance & Costs

• New Zoning will only take place on buildings that meet the highest expectations by MCCites Staff. Players should only attempt to build apartments after they have successfully transferred several properties from creative to survival before. The expectation is higher than other transfers.
• Apartment zoning will cost $10,000 per regioned apartment, in additional to any transfer costs.

Requirements

• No building shall have more than 15 regioned apartments in total.
• Each apartment must be at least 15x9 or 12x12 and 5 blocks in height
• Floors and ceilings do not count towards dimension and will not be included in the zone.
• Apartments must have at least 2 blocks between floors to avoid leaking water
• A rentable penthouse must be available on the top floor, it is strongly encouraged that this space has its own amenities such as pool or courtyard.
• Apartment must be fully decorated with the following at a minimum: kitchen, bedroom, living room, & storage space (can be open concepts).
• Apartments buildings must provide at least 2 community services such a swimming pool, restaurant, retail space, or other creative areas
• No Apartment will be zoned on plots smaller than 20x15 or 17x17

Pricing

• MCCities Staff controls all apartment pricing, owner will have no say in pricing.
• Prices will be:
  • $250 - Basic Apartment (something that is about or just above minimum requirements).
  • $500 - Basic Apartment for the most luxurious buildings with many ammenities, size is above average & views are available.
  • $750 - Reserved for very large & luxurious rooms. Views & High level floor required. May also be a price for a penthouse on smaller properties. No more than 8 apartments per building will have this price.
  • $1000 - Reserved for penthouse use only, limit 1 per building. Only the most amazing apartments will have this price.
  • No apartments will ever exceed 1000/week for rent.

Zoning

• New apartments may only exist in high density areas as defined by MCCities Staff, such as downtown & certain islands. It is recommended you get zoning approval for your plot before you begin building. Building will still be subject to requirements even if the plot is zoned to allow an apartment.
• Optional: MCCities staff will outline approved apartment regions with a green border to identify high density residential plots
• Islands are limited to no more than 5 apartment buildings.

Rezoning Policy:

• Existing apartments and their current owners are grandfathered, and not subject to new zoning rules.
• New owners be aware:
  • All apartments that exchange owners (no matter the method) are subject to the new zoning rules after XXXXX date.
  • Apartments that do not meet the standards are subject to removal of zones at staff discretion. The property can remain as its current build or rebuilt into something more appropriate for the area.
  • An owner may request their apartment zones be removed proactively, and also (if the plot meets the requirements) they can rebuild a new apartment under the new guidelines to improve existing apartments.

Again this looks like a lot, but it's really just some policy change, a guideline document, communication of policy, and region work over time. The limitations of apartment amount & costs of region should make requests easier on staff, and I believe it will bring improvement to the server over a long period of time. At current rate, we are stuck with sprawl and no way to improve density in urban cores--that's a problem and this is a decent solution.

I have buildings that do not meet these standards and I am happy to rezone and rebuild those properties--I think many other owners would be ok with this as well when they understand the long-term benefits to the server by having such policy. At last there a way to get them in, rather than the current state of no new apartments allowed.

Thanks for hearing me out,

 

[virek]

Funny the post above required moderator approval so the timestamp is a few days off. Thanks for approving!

 

[Death]

@LeanneTheUnicorn, This post is long, but it's a simple solution--please read through it--the length of this post is because I created sample apartment guidelines document for the staff to use if they choose to adopt it.

There are 3 things that need to happen to implement this. This is obviously something that takes place over many months or years using attrition and not something you just pull the rug out from the player base.

The steps to success are:

1. Acknowledge that apartments are for facilitating new players & creating density in urban cores. This will increase the purpose of retail shopping, police forces, community, and PVP. Apartments are NOT for veterans to profit from new players. Apartment ownership should be reserved for players with excellent building skills who want to build fantastic apartment complexes or as trophy properties to veterans. They will be a money sink for end game players--not income generators.
2. New, strict rules regarding zoning new apartments (defined below).
3. New rezoning policy for properties that change hands after X date (defined below). Grandfathering will also be in place.


GUIDELINE DOCUMENT:

New Apartment Zoning Rules

Rules are in place to remove motivation of profit (such as trying to fit as many apartments as possible into one building), to support more luxurious spaces, to ensure tenancy is high, to maintain dense urban populations, and to reduce urban sprawl.

General Appearance & Costs

• New Zoning will only take place on buildings that meet the highest expectations by MCCites Staff. Players should only attempt to build apartments after they have successfully transferred several properties from creative to survival before. The expectation is higher than other transfers.
• Apartment zoning will cost $10,000 per regioned apartment, in additional to any transfer costs.

Requirements

• No building shall have more than 15 regioned apartments in total.
• Each apartment must be at least 15x9 or 12x12 and 5 blocks in height
• Floors and ceilings do not count towards dimension and will not be included in the zone.
• Apartments must have at least 2 blocks between floors to avoid leaking water
• A rentable penthouse must be available on the top floor, it is strongly encouraged that this space has its own amenities such as pool or courtyard.
• Apartment must be fully decorated with the following at a minimum: kitchen, bedroom, living room, & storage space (can be open concepts).
• Apartments buildings must provide at least 2 community services such a swimming pool, restaurant, retail space, or other creative areas
• No Apartment will be zoned on plots smaller than 20x15 or 17x17

Pricing

• MCCities Staff controls all apartment pricing, owner will have no say in pricing.
• Prices will be:
  • $250 - Basic Apartment (something that is about or just above minimum requirements).
  • $500 - Basic Apartment for the most luxurious buildings with many ammenities, size is above average & views are available.
  • $750 - Reserved for very large & luxurious rooms. Views & High level floor required. May also be a price for a penthouse on smaller properties. No more than 8 apartments per building will have this price.
  • $1000 - Reserved for penthouse use only, limit 1 per building. Only the most amazing apartments will have this price.
  • No apartments will ever exceed 1000/week for rent.

Zoning

• New apartments may only exist in high density areas as defined by MCCities Staff, such as downtown & certain islands. It is recommended you get zoning approval for your plot before you begin building. Building will still be subject to requirements even if the plot is zoned to allow an apartment.
• Optional: MCCities staff will outline approved apartment regions with a green border to identify high density residential plots
• Islands are limited to no more than 5 apartment buildings.

Rezoning Policy:

• Existing apartments and their current owners are grandfathered, and not subject to new zoning rules.
• New owners be aware:
  • All apartments that exchange owners (no matter the method) are subject to the new zoning rules after XXXXX date.
  • Apartments that do not meet the standards are subject to removal of zones at staff discretion. The property can remain as its current build or rebuilt into something more appropriate for the area.
  • An owner may request their apartment zones be removed proactively, and also (if the plot meets the requirements) they can rebuild a new apartment under the new guidelines to improve existing apartments.

Again this looks like a lot, but it's really just some policy change, a guideline document, communication of policy, and region work over time. The limitations of apartment amount & costs of region should make requests easier on staff, and I believe it will bring improvement to the server over a long period of time. At current rate, we are stuck with sprawl and no way to improve density in urban cores--that's a problem and this is a decent solution.

I have buildings that do not meet these standards and I am happy to rezone and rebuild those properties--I think many other owners would be ok with this as well when they understand the long-term benefits to the server by having such policy. At last there a way to get them in, rather than the current state of no new apartments allowed.

Thanks for hearing me out,

This is good, tho the price control, idrk about it as what if we want to make a 750 dollar priced apt for 250 dollars. Like you said it shouldn’t be for profit so if my aim is to bring the cheapest prices possible as well as giving high quality. And true, I wouldn’t mind if you do the re zoning as it will only push for better improvements. I also like the apartment island limit, as it provides players to have lesser choices of where to rent at and its benefits.

 

[Shadow_stalker77]

@LeanneTheUnicorn, This post is long, but it's a simple solution--please read through it--the length of this post is because I created sample apartment guidelines document for the staff to use if they choose to adopt it.

There are 3 things that need to happen to implement this. This is obviously something that takes place over many months or years using attrition and not something you just pull the rug out from the player base.

The steps to success are:

1. Acknowledge that apartments are for facilitating new players & creating density in urban cores. This will increase the purpose of retail shopping, police forces, community, and PVP. Apartments are NOT for veterans to profit from new players. Apartment ownership should be reserved for players with excellent building skills who want to build fantastic apartment complexes or as trophy properties to veterans. They will be a money sink for end game players--not income generators.
2. New, strict rules regarding zoning new apartments (defined below).
3. New rezoning policy for properties that change hands after X date (defined below). Grandfathering will also be in place.


GUIDELINE DOCUMENT:

New Apartment Zoning Rules

Rules are in place to remove motivation of profit (such as trying to fit as many apartments as possible into one building), to support more luxurious spaces, to ensure tenancy is high, to maintain dense urban populations, and to reduce urban sprawl.

General Appearance & Costs

• New Zoning will only take place on buildings that meet the highest expectations by MCCites Staff. Players should only attempt to build apartments after they have successfully transferred several properties from creative to survival before. The expectation is higher than other transfers.
• Apartment zoning will cost $10,000 per regioned apartment, in additional to any transfer costs.

Requirements

• No building shall have more than 15 regioned apartments in total.
• Each apartment must be at least 15x9 or 12x12 and 5 blocks in height
• Floors and ceilings do not count towards dimension and will not be included in the zone.
• Apartments must have at least 2 blocks between floors to avoid leaking water
• A rentable penthouse must be available on the top floor, it is strongly encouraged that this space has its own amenities such as pool or courtyard.
• Apartment must be fully decorated with the following at a minimum: kitchen, bedroom, living room, & storage space (can be open concepts).
• Apartments buildings must provide at least 2 community services such a swimming pool, restaurant, retail space, or other creative areas
• No Apartment will be zoned on plots smaller than 20x15 or 17x17

Pricing

• MCCities Staff controls all apartment pricing, owner will have no say in pricing.
• Prices will be:
  • $250 - Basic Apartment (something that is about or just above minimum requirements).
  • $500 - Basic Apartment for the most luxurious buildings with many ammenities, size is above average & views are available.
  • $750 - Reserved for very large & luxurious rooms. Views & High level floor required. May also be a price for a penthouse on smaller properties. No more than 8 apartments per building will have this price.
  • $1000 - Reserved for penthouse use only, limit 1 per building. Only the most amazing apartments will have this price.
  • No apartments will ever exceed 1000/week for rent.

Zoning

• New apartments may only exist in high density areas as defined by MCCities Staff, such as downtown & certain islands. It is recommended you get zoning approval for your plot before you begin building. Building will still be subject to requirements even if the plot is zoned to allow an apartment.
• Optional: MCCities staff will outline approved apartment regions with a green border to identify high density residential plots
• Islands are limited to no more than 5 apartment buildings.

Rezoning Policy:

• Existing apartments and their current owners are grandfathered, and not subject to new zoning rules.
• New owners be aware:
  • All apartments that exchange owners (no matter the method) are subject to the new zoning rules after XXXXX date.
  • Apartments that do not meet the standards are subject to removal of zones at staff discretion. The property can remain as its current build or rebuilt into something more appropriate for the area.
  • An owner may request their apartment zones be removed proactively, and also (if the plot meets the requirements) they can rebuild a new apartment under the new guidelines to improve existing apartments.

Again this looks like a lot, but it's really just some policy change, a guideline document, communication of policy, and region work over time. The limitations of apartment amount & costs of region should make requests easier on staff, and I believe it will bring improvement to the server over a long period of time. At current rate, we are stuck with sprawl and no way to improve density in urban cores--that's a problem and this is a decent solution.

I have buildings that do not meet these standards and I am happy to rezone and rebuild those properties--I think many other owners would be ok with this as well when they understand the long-term benefits to the server by having such policy. At last there a way to get them in, rather than the current state of no new apartments allowed.

Thanks for hearing me out,

These new zoning rules sound really good, but this plan as a whole won't solve anything. Having the grandfather clause means that the hundreds of already-existing apartments will remain where they are. New players tend not to care where their apartment is located as long as it's cheap, so, odds are, these cramped apartments will still be rented. The only way to ensure high-density urbanization would be to completely remove all apartment regions and require everyone to rebuild their buildings, which is simply unfair and unrealistic.

Making every apartment cost $10,000 to region would discourage anyone to even make apartments because at $250 per week per room for 15 rooms, they would earn their zoning money back after 40 weeks (costs $150,000 to region, earn $3750 a week), which is the amount of time it took you to exist. This doesn't even count transfer costs, so a profit won't come from making apartments until like a year later. Many players won't even be playing on this server months from now.

Also, the apartment building limit on islands will never work because a lot of islands already have way more than 5 buildings on them. Again, the grandfather clause makes it impossible to remove these buildings, and it wouldn't be fair to the plot owners even if it was allowed.

 

[virek]

These new zoning rules sound really good, but this plan as a whole won't solve anything. Having the grandfather clause means that the hundreds of already-existing apartments will remain where they are. New players tend not to care where their apartment is located as long as it's cheap, so, odds are, these cramped apartments will still be rented. The only way to ensure high-density urbanization would be to completely remove all apartment regions and require everyone to rebuild their buildings, which is simply unfair and unrealistic.

Making every apartment cost $10,000 to region would discourage anyone to even make apartments because at $250 per week per room for 15 rooms, they would earn their zoning money back after 40 weeks (costs $150,000 to region, earn $3750 a week), which is the amount of time it took you to exist. This doesn't even count transfer costs, so a profit won't come from making apartments until like a year later. Many players won't even be playing on this server months from now.

Also, the apartment building limit on islands will never work because a lot of islands already have way more than 5 buildings on them. Again, the grandfather clause makes it impossible to remove these buildings, and it wouldn't be fair to the plot owners even if it was allowed.

Anybody that agrees with this has not read the post closely enough

1. Attrition does work. It's used in many systems to phase out problems like this with professional and governmental problems all the time.
2. Yes, exactly. Making it 10k a region DOES discourage people to make apartments. Read the post, I literally say that. This does multiple things. A) Makes the requests easier on staff because there aren't many B) Makes this a true end-game activity C) creates a money sink for the economy which is needed and D) Removed the motivation of profit from apartments
   1. Your second paragraph is what created this problem, that that's why it's an issue today.
   2. You then go on to say many players won't be on this server months from now, again making my case that attrition does work when it comes to the zoning policy.
3. Then those island's can't have more and the current ones are grandfathered, like you said months from now when those owners are gone they would fall under the new policy and over time they are slowly unregioned or upgraded by somebody to make them better.

 

[Shadow_stalker77]

1) Attrition does work, but what you described above is not attrition. You aren't reducing the amount of apartments available; you're actually proposing an increase. Since new players rent whichever apartment comes up first, getting one of these new apartments would be pure chance.
2) You actually think that people on this economy server, where the whole point is to make money, will decide to give their hard-earned money away?
3) Grandfathering these apartments is one way to guarantee that nothing will ever change

 

[virek]

1) Attrition does work, but what you described above is not attrition. You aren't reducing the amount of apartments available; you're actually proposing an increase. Since new players rent whichever apartment comes up first, getting one of these new apartments would be pure chance.
2) You actually think that people on this economy server, where the whole point is to make money, will decide to give their hard-earned money away?
3) Grandfathering these apartments is one way to guarantee that nothing will ever change

Hey man, thanks for arguing another side because no solution is perfect--but you're just spreading misinformation now. I'm happy to have an actual discussion to tune the suggestion, but you're points need to be addressed.

1. The Rezoning policy does reduce the number of apartments through attrition. The new policy applies when new users, leave, get banned, or otherwise quit.
   1. Webster definition #4: "a reduction in numbers usually as a result of resignation, retirement, or death"
   2. Dictionary definition #3:"a gradual reduction in work force without firing of personnel, as when workers resign or retire and are not replaced. "
   3. This word is also used in many professional circumstances not in the dictionary, such as phasing out PKI certificates.
   4. There are so many variations of its use I'll just leave this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attrition
   5. So, in this context it applies to meaning reducing number of apartments over time through various circumstances of the owners becoming inactive on that property.
   6. You say I'm "proposing an increase" but don't factor that the rezoning policy does address this, and then next you argue that nobody will even pay for this...so your arguments are contradicting themselves. How can we have a net increase if nobody is going to pay up?
   7. In general, you will see a net decrease over many months or years with a policy like this. There's really nothing else to say about that. If anybody is still confused I recommend reading my second post more closely or even better--improve it.
2. What you're referencing here is actually called spending --since you get something in return, and on an economy server yes, absolutely people want to spend their money on things they want. Myself included. People will 100% spend that amount of money in order to region out apartments they are very proud of building. And frankly they should be limited in count, and the best way to do that is to make it expensive & end-game content. I mean it's really not even an option to zone or upgrade apartments right now so how's that working out in comparison? The option isn't even available, so you're point is moot. Nobody is going to force them to do this, if you don't want to participate, then don't.
3. There's not even a basis for this statement. Grandfathering and rezoning applies the same way to islands as it would anywhere else. The ruleset is the same, you are just limited to 5 on islands...which is an example & can certainly be adjusted based on valid feedback.

One of the best counter arguments to my own suggestion I'll give you is that the staff simply doesn't have the time or patience to enforce this. They will have to deal with a player base that think $X price is too expensive or too cheap to region an apartment, deal with people that think it's not fair, think that standards are too strict and complain--but they are ultimately all selfish reasons because what's been done in the past is a bunch of crappy small apartments in a rectangle for maximum profit. That's not a good experience for new players, it creates city sprawl, it diminishes the value of all the other activities, and it makes apartments ownership boring. In the long run, you want areas of density on a city server, not ghost towns. So help us solve this rather than fighting it.

 

[Shadow_stalker77]

I'm not trying to argue with you, I just wanted to point out the one flaw in your plan - grandfathering.

1) Attrition is "a reduction of numbers," as you stated above. I don't see how allowing more apartments to be regioned would cause a reduction. Sure, when apartment buildings are sold/traded they have to be updated to fit the new rules, but the real estate market is quite stagnant right now. Some apartment buildings may be updated, but the number would be negligible compared to how many apartments currently exist. Literally hundreds of them remain unrented and ready for new players, so a few new buildings won't even make a dent in the market. This alone is enough to prove that grandfathering is the only thing holding this plan back, but you seem to disagree.

2) I understand that a net decrease is possible. Those who own apartment buildings will eventually go inactive and after 60 days, their plots will go up for sale. This would help the market a bit, but again, the sheer amount of already-existing apartments would make that irrelevant. The amount of apartments will eventually go down over time - in about five years when everybody quits the server.

3) It's very generous of you to spend your money to try and fix the apartment surplus. I just hope enough people would be willing to throw their money in the "money sink." With the attitude towards money on this server, I doubt it, but good luck to you.

I'm a fan of literally everything else in this plan (except the $10,000 per region, that's just ridiculous); it's just the fact that allowing hundreds of cramped apartments to remain in the city would do nothing to help the server, at least for the next few years. One solution would be to remove the grandfather clause and replace it with what's already happening on the server: making plots meet city standards (specifically the ones in your plan). Forcing plot owners to make improvements to their buildings might be unfair, but that's the only solution to fixing the city sprawl that I can think of.

 

[virek]

I'm not trying to argue with you, I just wanted to point out the one flaw in your plan - grandfathering.

1) Attrition is "a reduction of numbers," as you stated above. I don't see how allowing more apartments to be regioned would cause a reduction. Sure, when apartment buildings are sold/traded they have to be updated to fit the new rules, but the real estate market is quite stagnant right now. Some apartment buildings may be updated, but the number would be negligible compared to how many apartments currently exist. Literally hundreds of them remain unrented and ready for new players, so a few new buildings won't even make a dent in the market. This alone is enough to prove that grandfathering is the only thing holding this plan back, but you seem to disagree.

2) I understand that a net decrease is possible. Those who own apartment buildings will eventually go inactive and after 60 days, their plots will go up for sale. This would help the market a bit, but again, the sheer amount of already-existing apartments would make that irrelevant. The amount of apartments will eventually go down over time - in about five years when everybody quits the server.

3) It's very generous of you to spend your money to try and fix the apartment surplus. I just hope enough people would be willing to throw their money in the "money sink." With the attitude towards money on this server, I doubt it, but good luck to you.

I'm a fan of literally everything else in this plan (except the $10,000 per region, that's just ridiculous); it's just the fact that allowing hundreds of cramped apartments to remain in the city would do nothing to help the server, at least for the next few years. One solution would be to remove the grandfather clause and replace it with what's already happening on the server: making plots meet city standards (specifically the ones in your plan). Forcing plot owners to make improvements to their buildings might be unfair, but that's the only solution to fixing the city sprawl that I can think of.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I just wanted to point out the one flaw in your plan - grandfathering.

1) Attrition is "a reduction of numbers," as you stated above. I don't see how allowing more apartments to be regioned would cause a reduction. Sure, when apartment buildings are sold/traded they have to be updated to fit the new rules, but the real estate market is quite stagnant right now. Some apartment buildings may be updated, but the number would be negligible compared to how many apartments currently exist. Literally hundreds of them remain unrented and ready for new players, so a few new buildings won't even make a dent in the market. This alone is enough to prove that grandfathering is the only thing holding this plan back, but you seem to disagree.

2) I understand that a net decrease is possible. Those who own apartment buildings will eventually go inactive and after 60 days, their plots will go up for sale. This would help the market a bit, but again, the sheer amount of already-existing apartments would make that irrelevant. The amount of apartments will eventually go down over time - in about five years when everybody quits the server.

3) It's very generous of you to spend your money to try and fix the apartment surplus. I just hope enough people would be willing to throw their money in the "money sink." With the attitude towards money on this server, I doubt it, but good luck to you.

I'm a fan of literally everything else in this plan (except the $10,000 per region, that's just ridiculous); it's just the fact that allowing hundreds of cramped apartments to remain in the city would do nothing to help the server, at least for the next few years. One solution would be to remove the grandfather clause and replace it with what's already happening on the server: making plots meet city standards (specifically the ones in your plan). Forcing plot owners to make improvements to their buildings might be unfair, but that's the only solution to fixing the city sprawl that I can think of.

Thanks for your input.

I think I explained #1 best I can. I don't know what I can say to further explain #1. We may just have to agree to disagree on that for now.

The price, just like any of those other requirements can be changed. $5,000, $50,000, whatever. I just listed a high example price because there is a surplus right now. The price is simply a mechanism for staff to either increase or decrease the amount of apartment regioning being done. The staff can control it, but you can still "pay to play" if you want it bad enough.

Staff can make this happen as fast or as slow as possible, the faster the more risk of complaints. I honestly wouldn't mind it being implemented quickly but I'm simply giving them an option of handling it over a longer period of time without pissing a bunch of owners off because they lose their regions or something.

Thanks,